There is a rumor going around that Phil only picked John from DSO for furthur to hurt DSO and possibly end the band. The long standing word was Phil hates and always has hated DSO and now that DSO was playing a lot of the same venues as Phil and Friends that time was now to step in and do something about it?? What do the people here think about this? BS? or Truth

Bull Feathers.............


p.s. > Save 4 ur Retirement, Phil's is already ALL SET!

trying to stir shit up?

phil obviosly doent have a problem with the guy as a person or musician.

I dont beleive a word of it!

From all appearances, Bobby talked Phil into working with John Kadlicek, precisely because he really sounds like Jerry. Every time Bobby and Phil have gotten together since Jerry's death, they've wrestled with the "should we sound like the Grateful Dead or like something completely different" question. Invariably, they started out thinking "let's sound different" and then wound up splitting the difference between an alternative sound and a traditional GD sound as the tours wound on. E.g., those of us who followed the Spring 2009 Dead tour might recall how Warren Haynes started out playing several different guitars, including a Firebird, a Gibson 335, and a Gibson SG, but as the tour progressed, he leaned more and more on the Firebird played through a Mutron type "perpetual wah" effect for a faux Jerry sound far removed from his usual muscular blues/jazz/rock stylings. This time out, maybe -- just maybe -- they decided to quit fighting gravity and give in to the inevitable, which is what the music seems to demand. Hence JK. I also think that this may be the last of the post Jerry bands: Phil will be 70 in exactly 7 weeks. As his journey as a performer nears its inevitable end, he, too, may feel the pull and wish to return to Terrapin Station (which is what the band should have been named, IMHO, but that's nothing but a quibble on my part).

There are blues and jazz players that have and do perform well into their late 80s (Pinetop perkins, B.B. King).

Indeed. I think Phil will be playing music for a long time to come. It's the touring that will be curtailed, i'd imagine.

Les Paul played once a week, every week, in N.Y.C. when he was 90!

>>>>>>>p.s. > Save 4 ur Retirement, Phil's is already ALL SET!

What does retirement have to do with anything?

I also think this rumor to total crap

I'm not peddling any retirement rumors. I wouldn't even if I had the faintest idea as to when Phil will retire from live performance, which I don't. I sincerely hope it is at a time and in a way of his own choosing, and that he will continue to be able to make music in different ways, and enjoy his family for many years thereafter. When I say that I think this may be the last of the post-Jerry bands, I don't mean to imply any specific date. I could easily see Furthur lasting 2, 3 or even 4 or 5 years. I'm simply pointing out that, in the vast scheme of things, the trip that began 45 years ago, in 1965, when Phil joined the Warlocks, is approaching its inevitable end. On what timetable, who knows?

As for musicians who performed in their 70s, 80s, and even 90s, being an East Coaster, I got to see and hear almost all of them. Frequently. They'd be good for maybe 45 minutes a set, usually seated. I've only seen one musician who could and did perform for two or three hours a night at age 70 and beyond -- Willie Nelson.

Fela Kuti - Congratulations on having the most idiotic post in the history of the Philzone. Try not to embarrass yourself any further.

JP, don't be so hard on Fela Kuti. I seem to remember a post about an incident that involved Poz, Schnee, Gitmo, the Grim Reaper, a hot tub, and a gallon bottle of vegetable oil. Oh, and I forgot, a squid. Compared to that, this one was pretty tame!

"There is a rumor going around..." Yes, begun by you.

I would guess that Phil, with his history and musicianship, has better things on his mind than trying to sabotage a band that's covering GD tunes. I'm sure he has better things to worry about than that.

Having seen a number of the Mill Valley shows, there seemed to be nothing but good will, excitement and happiness on stage. To think that Furthur began with any type of bad feeling seems very far fetched.

As for Phil not playing music past a certain point in his life - why is it that people think that just because a musician or an artist is at a certain age, they should stop pursuing what there passion is? These types of comments are obviously made by people who do not play music or make art.

Say what you want about this idiotic post, yes, "maybe" he was tryin to stir something up, or "maybe" somebody actually told him that, who knows? But as far as being the most idiotic post in the history of the PhilZone?...Based on some of the garbage that ive seen over the years,Its not even close!

I don't know, it's right up there with "Jimmy Herring is our generations John Coltrane" for most idiotic thing I've read here.

There is quite allot of competition though.

I'd say Jimmy Herring is this generation of jambands' Nomar Garciaparra: fairly well-travelled, consistently produces, but not a Hall of Famer!

Based on snipets I have gathered and his thank you addresses to the crowds at shows.. I think Phil enjoys having the music of the Grateful Dead live on and continue to be timeless and enjoyed/celebrated.


what's the saying?? "Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery"

"nomar Garciaparra"

bwahahahah that made me laugh

I would have to say that Phil just doesn't seem the type to stir up drama around him and I'm sure he wouldn't go on tour with someone for such reasons. I mean, he's 70 years old...if you are still jammin on stage with a smile on your face touring the country at 70--I can't imagine he has any intention of anything but simply keeping the music alive =)

Of course, that is just my opinion =)

Well to quote the man himself a-la Cal Expo '90

"...THAT'S A BULLSHIT LIE!!!"

I also heard that once Phil's dastardly plan of subterfuge is complete, he's gonna fit JK's feet with a pair of cement galoshes and send him swimming with the fishies. Thas way it will insure DSO never rises from the ashes.

MWAAHAHAHA *evil grimace*

^^^^^Les Paul played once a week, every week, in N.Y.C. when he was 90!

2 shows every Monday drool and all!!!!

I've read Phil interviews from years back where he said something like, I didn't see why DSO such a big deal at first but now I understand DSO does something different, and it's pretty OK with me... that's a paraphrase. I think he was impressed when he actually heard them.

>>>>The long standing word >>>>>

that pretty vague
care to site a source?

in my opinion there is no doubt the rumor is true...dso was getting 25000 a night and phil was getting about 50-60 and ratdog the same and they were playing alot of the same venues and contrary to what anybody thinks dso was definately taking money out of their pockets and also the john like jerry factor was there...it is and was the best decision in my opinion...kill the dragon by taking the leader and making him one of your own...john and je russo both signed 2 year contractc with no compete clauses in them

It is such utter bullshit that I can't believe I am stooping so low as to even dignify this preposterous notion with a reply, but there you go. I feel so...dirty.

There is no rumor other than in this stupid ass thread!

this rumor sounds like bogus bullshit

>> D.S.O. was getting 25,000 a night << Dude....What the hell are you smoking? I've always liked D.S.O. but they dont come anywhere near 25,000 a night! The best they can do is come "close" to selling out 2 nights at the Nokia Theatre (New York)...which holds 2,100 per night.....25,000? Pass the crack pipe!

john whether you want to believe it or not before john quit they were getting 25000 a night...i know their ex-manager and if you dont believe me just call them up and ask them how much to play in your backyard and i think you will be shocked when you hear the number...dont believe me do some homework and then make a comment...go to their websire and ask them how much...and i also know for a fact because my friend is the promotor at the memeorial weekend fest in monroe new york that they are headlinging that they wont unload the truck for less than 18000...the price has dropped since john left...and using your numbers at nokia 2100 times 25 per ticket is 52500...do the math and no crack here

john...if you dont beleieve me call them up and ask them how much to play at your wedding and i think you will shocked when you hear the number..so get in gear do some homework and then rip me

Looks like John's talking the attendance and you're talking the fee.

Im talking attendance...If your talking attendande..Then Ill stick to what I said. P.S. I know Mike their former soundman and Rob Baracco qute well and Ive hung backstage with these guys on numerous occasions. So as far as "attendace" goes..I have my facts quite straight.

P.S. Also, the "rumor".... is a crock of shit!

ok if you know baracco then you know how much they charge...so how much would they charge me to play at my wedding?

and just for the record...it is what it is and im a nice guy and im sure you are too but i know they dont play for free and also im holding my ticket stub from nokia in my hand and it says 35 $....so 2100 times 35 equals 73500......and obviously that doesnt include beer and food...so how much of the 73000 does dso get a night?...im asking

also i was at a wedding sat night in long island and a freaking dj ...there was 4 of them with video screens .......a dj got 15000 to play this wedding.....when i got married 5 years ago the band was 5200....so how much does dso charge?

i dont understand where the negativity is coming from....im a contractor and if i told you its 20000 to paint the inside of your house you would probably tell im on crack ...which you did....but the fact of the matter is that sometimes i do tell people its 20000 to paint your house...dso is a big deal...they have to have at least 1- 18 wheeler...i seriously doubt they move all that shit in a van and it doesnt magically set itself up and according to you they have a sound man and im sure they have drum techs and lighting etc and i guess they all sleep in a van or a tent ,grow their own food,and make their own gasoline...im guessing that there has to be at least 20 people including the band in their on road operations...somebody has to pay for all this...so instead of throwing insults ..throw facts... i know for a fact they were getting 25000 with jon you say no...one of us is right and one is wrong.....hopefully we can have a beer at a show and laugh about this...and also i see your from nj so am i...so lets go up to warwick on memeorial day...ill meet you there and i will introduce you to the promotor and we will both ask him together how much he just paid dso to walk onstage...and i think you will get an honest answer...so enough of this rhetoric...it is what it is....if they dont get 25000 i know they dont do it for free so obviously its somewhere in between

Dude..RELAX!...Are you reading what I said? I thought that you were talking about "attendance" I said that DSO is NOT getting 25,000 people at a concert, and I am correct.... You were talking about how much the band gets paid... You were also correct. So...we were both correct. ..Can we now agree?

Relax it was a mis understanding he thaught you meant 25000 peolpe at their shows who cares how much money they make. it could be$50000 a night do you think that bothers phil.

Sounding like Jerry and Feeling like Jerry are two different things- fake Jerry's guitar tones kinda sound like Jerry- but that's as far as it goes

i am relaxed all good things in all good time....all cool john

i am relaxed all good things in all good time....all cool john

Cool Bill!

I've stopped lurking for now and decided to join the discussion. As for fee for DSO. Here's proof:
http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-b odies-offices-regional-local/12007108-1.html

$25K 2 summers ago.

Nobodys arguing about how much DSO gets paid! Wake up and read!

does DSO pay royalties?- they sure as heck should- the publishing groups BMI?- come thru here every five years and shake down coffee houses that play radio in the background or have non- all orginal open mikes- Hunter and Garcia estate should def see some of that 25K per copied performance

Royalties are for recorded music/sold albums. Anybody can cover any song live.

I would think a lawyer could argue the DSO does much more than "cover a song" in the middle of their "performance"- so yes while a royalty claim might not apply- these music krooks owe Hunter and Jerry's estate as well as Weir/Barlow

my understanding...and i could be wrong ...is that playing anybodys music and getting paid to do it would result in a royalty in some shape or form....technically dso or anybody is supposed to have bought the sheet music for that nights songlist ....have it written down ....and pay something like 2-3 cents per song per version