Philzone.org - Philzone Phansite Community Discussion Board: Politics: Politics - Archive 2012: Pipeline or Property Owner?

http://blog.chron.com/texaspolitics/2012/02/texas-property-owners-activists-sound-alarm-on-keystone-xl/

Keyston XL v. over 80 property owners in 18 Texas counties.

Keystone XL has claimed emminent domain on 80 property owners in Texas, is having their land condemned and taken from them to run thier private pipeline accross the state. This is not the Local, County, State or Federal government who is claiming emminent domain, it is a private FOREIGN owned company that is stealing AMERICAN LANDOWNERS PROPERTY WITHOUT COMPENSATION! These folks do not want to sell or give or have their property confiscated. Many have land that has been in thier family for well over 150 years.

So were do you stand now? Are you still going to back foreign owned Keystone XL or are you going to stand with your fellow Americans right to own and hold property from being taken by a private Canadian company?

The line is drawn in the sand.

What side of the line do you stand?

Dude, The Keystone XL isn't happening... Obama is going to award project to Warren Buffet and his trains. The Sand oil is going to be moved by trains instead. It is a political pay off to the second riches man in the world..
Buffet is in works to lock up deal to 2030..So the real question is:

Does Rail cause less envirionmental impact then pipes?
... is it the countries best interest to do political favor's to your biggest donors ?

Sorry to tell you bro but they are breaking ground in Texas as I type this post. Right now. As we breath the same air under the same sun today the ground is being broken in Texas. It is a fact.

^Obama Puppetmaster Warren Buffett Biggest Winner From Keystone Pipeline Rejection
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 01/24/2012 08:36 -0500

Berkshire Hathaway Capital Markets Crude Crude Oil Warren Buffett


Just when one thinks American crony capitalism couldn't hit new lows, here comes Warren Buffett and his personal puppet, the president, proving everyone wrong once more. Because if one thinks there is no (s)quid pro quo for all that "sage" advice that Buffett has been giving to Obama on extracting as much wealth as possible from future wealthy Americans (before they decide they have had enough with this crony shit and leave the country for good), one would be fatally wrong. As it turns out, it is not just natural resources and aquifer purity that Obama had in mind when sealing the fate of the Keystone XL pipeline. No - it appears there were far more relevant numerial metrics that determined Obama's decisions. Such as the bottom line number of Buffett's Burlington Northern, which according to Bloomberg, is among U.S. and Canadian railroads that stand to benefit from the Obama administration’s decision to reject TransCanada Corp.’s Keystone XL oil pipeline permit. '“Whatever people bring to us, we’re ready to haul,” Krista York-Wooley, a spokeswoman for Burlington Northern, a unit of Buffett’s Omaha, Nebraska-based Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (BRK/A), said in an interview. If Keystone XL “doesn’t happen, we’re here to haul." And quite delighted to reap the windfalls of unfounded populist fears she forgot to add. Because while the whole "carbon-credit" multi-trillion top line expansion scheme for Goldman under the pretense of actually caring for the environment may have collapsed, it is not preventing others from trying and succeeding where even Goldman has failed.
Money talks ...


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/obama-puppetmaster-w arren-buffett-biggest-winner-keystone-pipeline-rej ection

>>>breaking ground
^since 2008. That is another reason to call foul.

pipeline, RR . . . doesnt matther they are clearing the land either way.

they need to take this to the courts. ED is archaic and awful. these companies or the government should be required to offer fair market value for the land.

I saw something like this happen in my town, it was a travesty. They actually did offer the land owners $$ for the property but it was like $25k for houses that normally go for closer to $1 million . . . all for yet another highway feeding cars into NYC. silly.

^Let's stay on topic. Like water america needs to move Oil around. Better to deal with it on land and envirionmental friendly as possible. IMO

^Obama's rejection of the Keystone XL pipeline was dumb on top of stupid. It killed a legitimate job creating, energy providing shot in the arm for the American economy in desperate need of some good news. The rejection also forced a great ally and trading partner to seek favor with America's largest economic and political competitor in the world.

The Chinese are more than willing to fill the void created by Obama's mistaken decision, and take advantage of Canadian oil to expand the Chinese economy on a path to overtake the U.S. as the world leader.

http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/bobbeauprez /2012/02/11/canadian_pm_courts_china_after_obamas_ keystone_pipeline_rejection

>ED is archaic and awful.

It shouldn't be, and fair market value is the standard. It may take a year or so, but initially it shouldn't take too long because the govt's appraisal value is released to the landowner, the govt takes the property and the landowner and the govt slug it out in court over value. This assumes the public or private nature of the use isn't in question.

This pipeline delay has been the worst move of the Administration thus far.

Nobody is taking any land. They are going to bury a pipe underneath the land.

Just like the natural gas line going into your house.

OH The Humanity!

And whitey you being in South Texas should know better. There are more pipeines underneath there than probably anywhere in the US. Stop being such a skirt.

The property owners in Texas have already had their land condemned and are in court to stop Keyston XL from breaking more ground on their property.

The case is that you must agree to THEIR TERMS or your land gets condemned and taken anyway. Their terms are less then equitable.

This is a foreign company exercising the right of eminent domain in OUR country.

>>>Nobody is taking any land.

Blair, you ignorant fuck,

Yes they are and already have. Yes and they also will own the easement above the pipeline and the airspace above. Regardless of structures already built, homes, out-buildings, burial grounds, streams & rivers.

got power lines in your backyard..

its called an easment..

don't be scared

^^Obama's pipeline to nowhere.

>>>got power lines in your backyard..its called an easment..don't be scared


Unless you don't want a Canadian building powerlines across your back yard, eh.

Unless you don't want a Canadian building powerlines across your back yard, eh.>>


when it comes to some things it doesn't matter what you want..

eminent domain
roads are easments
sidewalks are easments
drainage culverts are easments

imagine the highway system if they stopped at every property that objected to the construction..

>roads are easments
sidewalks are easments
drainage culverts are easments

No they aren't.

And it's easement. Look it up. Also, look up right-of-way.

Warren Buffet working on the Railroad.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/22/warren-bu ffett-ukulele_n_1222024.html

No they aren't.>>




what do you know..

yes they are

what kind of lawyer are you?

go back to school

>imagine the highway system if they stopped at every property that objected to the construction.

Ever hear of due process?

Ever hear of due process?>>


ever hear of eminent domain?

>what do you know..
yes they are
what kind of lawyer are you?
go back to school

No, they're not. An easement is a land right and a right-of-way is the actual land area where the road or pipeline is located.

But you're a fucking moron, so I don't expect you to understand that. I've been a land use attorney for 15 years, but you probably know more than me sitting in your mom's basement reading Ebony Magazine.

Right. And the landowner has the right to challenge the nature of the taking and the value. The government doesn't just take the property. There's a PROCESS.

Get a fucking job know-it-all. God you're dumb.

Of course he does, Scroto. Bert don't need no fancy book learnin. He's got good old common sense. He don't hold with you big city boys with yer fancy airs and red neckties, no sirree. He lives in the real world. Where your mom buys you the stuff you want.

I suppose I shouldn't curse but that motherfucker drives me nuts!

Bert and Bliar wrong again,not surprised

No, they're not. An easement is a land right and a right-of-way is the actual land area where the road or pipeline is located. >>

no wonder you practice law in Jersey..

you wouldn't last an hour in NY..


go back to school

Uh, Yeah. I work in NY too dummy. My office is in NJ.

I'll give you one thing, you're a resilient little moron.

I need to try the "yes it is" during my next oral argument.

"But Your Honor, that's what Bert said."

Definition: An easement is a right given to another person or entity to trespass upon land that person or entity does not own. Easements are used for roads, for example or given to utility companies for the right to bury cables or access utility lines. Landlocked home owners sometimes pay for an easement to cross the land of another to reach their home.


Your Honor

My lawyer is an idiot

And that's exactly what I said.

You said roads, culverts and sidewalks are easements. They're not. They may be a part of an easement, but they are not in and of themselves "easements". They are a right-of-way which may be a part of an easement.

You may not realize this because you're not in the real world, but these distinctions matter.

Keep making a total horse's ass of yourself though. I enjoy that part of the day. It usually happens around this time.

>>>imagine the highway system if they

THEY, whom you speak of, are CANADIANS Bert. Not US citizens. What next, the North Koreans?

The Canadians do not build our streets, sidewalks, ecetera.

You said roads, culverts and sidewalks are easements. They're not. They may be a part of an easement, but they are not in and of themselves "easements". >>


double talk

blah blah

go back to school

>>>imagine the highway system if they

THEY, whom you speak of, are CANADIANS Bert. Not US citizens. What next, the North Koreans?

The Canadians do not build our streets, sidewalks, ecetera.

>>>Bert and Bliar

Road = Right of way, either local or state.

Culverts = wtf, usually in the right of way, which means local, or state.

Sidewalks, ususally in the right of way, though sometimes on your property, or in a dedicated easement of the cities which abutts your property and the ROW.

all american companies

TransCanada Corp. has selected Quanta Services-owned Price Gregory Services to be part of MPS Constructors, a joint venture made up of Michels Corp., Price Gregory Services and Sheehan Pipe Line Construction, that will build the 1,179-mile section of Keystone XL between Hardisty, Alberta, to Steele City, NB, and related infrastructure that are part of the project.

Transcanada will operate the pipeline when built.

Dont let the facts get in the way Whitey.

Clown

whoops scroto, missed your post.

bert, seriously?
double talk?

grow up dude.

oh, and relearn what double speak is.

Manfred...another clown devoid of facts.

Retail pump monkey

>>The case is that you must agree to THEIR TERMS or your land gets condemned and taken anyway. Their terms are less then equitable.


this is true. Scroto my example was Rt 287 through the back end of Kinnelon (almost near to where it backs into lincoln Park) those guys did not get anywhere near market value. it was a travesty.

I agree it doesnt have to be, but it ususally is. I havent heard of a happy ED sitch in a long long time.

but hey, if they pay these people some nice rent im all for it. At least the frackers pay out some rent

>>Transcanada will operate the pipeline when built.

who will OWN it when built? Who gives a shit who builds it and who operates it . . . who OWNS it. Whos balls are in the vice when 100k gallons of oil spills? Whose giving these people fair price or rent for the land use?

power lines..

run through people's private property above ground..

Power Company has an easement to access the lines.

the property owner owns the land but needs permission from power company to build within the easement. Power company has right to access easement without property owner's permission.



A road easement is an easement which allows for the construction and use of a road on a parcel of land by someone other than the property owner. Road easements may be private or public, depending on who needs to use the road and why. The easement gives people the right to use the road, but it does not give them right of possession. There are a number of settings in which road easements can be established, and the law can sometimes get extremely complicated when it comes to the details of easements.

>>>run through people's private property above ground..

not always, sometimes underground, and here increasingly moreso.

and yes, easements. but we kinda laid that softball up there for ......

and the law can sometimes get extremely complicated when it comes to the details of easements.

Retail pump monkey?

It's always amusing watching the two basement cases argue law with a seasoned attorney and finance with an expert in the field. Ok. It's actually pathetic, but it's funny in a "did you see that guy trip on a sidewalk crack?" kind of way.

Ya little shits!

You are so anti-American it is pathetic! You cannot even get behind your own fellow citizens in their fight against foreign oppression in our own country! You are a traitor to the United States basic rights of it's citizens and when cornered you run for cover under the skirts of the fucking Canadians. I hope you enjoy your maple syrup and bacon when watching your hockey game.

Losers.

Dig the oil sands (formerly known as TAR sands), process it on site in Canada and sell it to whoever you please but keep it out of MY backyard unless invited by the citizens you oppress.

...and being that it is Texas and East Texas at that, most of the property owners are Republicans that this is affecting. Not that it should matter which party they affiliate with, we are afterall Americans.

You on the otherhand have no place here. You cannot justify being both for and against your own party and the citizens of the United States to have soverign rights to their property, a stalwart cause of the political right.

>>What side of the line do you stand?

>>Ya little shits!

>>>You are so anti-American it is pathetic!

The classic PZ meltdown...

f'n bert and ernie(bliar) ,you guys are hilarious

Relax Stone cold. I have far from melted.

My jets are cool. I'm enjoying the thread.
You make some good points.

Just rattlin the bars my friend.

It's always amusing watching the two basement cases argue law with a seasoned attorney and finance with an expert in the field.>>


seasoned attorney..

funny


i have testified numerous times over many years in courts of law hired by real lawyers for matters similar to this..


amusing

I love how this thread is about real people in texas being affected and yet somehow the conversation turns to hating obama. way too predictable... we cant even discuss anything on true merit.

>i have testified numerous times over many years in courts of law hired by real lawyers for matters similar to this..

Landscape law can be quite lucrative

>hired by real lawyers

yeah, but were they real Americans?

Bert,

Now is the time. What, exactly, is your profession? Or is that "private information" like the identity of the state you live in?

Gift to the Vagi (Cinderoo) on >>

what are you expert in?
vigina?

Oooh, Bert is giving Blair a run for mythical internet important guy this week.

I cabn't believe I have to leave shortly. This is getting good.

vigina?

I think he meant vagina but you can never be sure with that kid

What, exactly, is your profession? >>


my number one occupation

is

stealing women
from their men


exactly


are you really a lawyer?

Maybe someday you will find a girl and can take her out.

1500 people own land in texas and have signed leases for this to go thru.

30 people don't

Tough luck.

They have no standing.

This is no different than forced pooling of mineral rights. If I own a section of farmland, minus one acre. The guy who owns the one acre cannot hold everyone hostage.

Forced pooling has held up to constitutional challenges.

And with that bit of information, the peanut gallery needs to pipe down.

Forced pooling compels holdout landowners to join gas-leasing agreements with their neighbors. The specific provisions of the laws vary from state to state, but drillers are generally allowed to extract minerals from a large area or "pool"--in most states a minimum of 640 acres--if leases have been negotiated for a certain percentage of that land. The company can then harvest gas from the entire area. In most cases, drillers aren't allowed to build surface wells on unleased land, so they use horizontal wells or other means to collect the minerals beneath those parcels.

Thirty-nine states have some form of forced pooling law.


Forced pooling is also supported by landowners who fear that drilling companies will place wells near their property and siphon off their gas without payment. Another group of supporters includes people who own the surface rights to their property while someone else owns the mineral rights--a situation known as a "split estate." Although these landowners usually aren't entitled to any payment, some forced pooling laws compel drillers to compensate them, too.

I cabn't believe I have to leave shortly.>>

leave

he cabn't believe..

go out and find some balls..

admit you are a conserative right winger..

Are you trying to spell cabinet?

so blair, you think that reasoning will fall in line here?

>>>They have no standing.

sadly, as this goes, they means we, which one day means you.

Of course it will Hollis.

And no..it isn't sad.

Pooling allows for progress. Without it nothing would get done in this country.

If you truly owned your property there would be no such thing as property tax.

Don't pay your property tax you will find out quickly that you only rent your land.

>>>They have no standing.

in other words the rich and powerful will do what ever they want. this isnt a new development. People still need to fight for whats right.

Pooling allows for progress. Without it nothing would get done in this country.


Thank you for agreeing that we need to pool for public healthcare. it would definately be progress.

There isn't pooling on a federal leverl for mineral rights,


Poor analogy.,

>>>Pooling allows for progress.

i would argue not always.

see there is that word progress again, hillman.

so who and what is considered progressive?

Property rights are often described as a bundle of sticks and you never own all the sticks.