Philzone.org - Philzone Phansite Community Discussion Board: Hep C Support & Awareness: ARCHIVE 2010: Treatment and tranplant Refused

I was recent told by both the general Medical and by the Veterans Hospital, as well as in all my
medical records; that it was determined that I am
not a candidate for Liver Transplant or Hepatitis-c
Treatment due to substance abuse (Marijuana)!
Its strange, when someone like me, who suffers from
manic depression with suicidal thoughts and tendencies,Bipolar and other psychological problems
(with 14 suicidal attempts); and uses Medical
Marijuana to help control Mental Health issues !

Bruce, again...that sucks! Especially the biopsy. I had no idea that that would be denied. It makes no sense at all.

All my best to you,
Betsy

I'm going through the same thing but have been clean & taking their drugs for mental issues for a year plus. Even one of the head guys from normal went through this. He does have a new liver & underwent treatment for HCV. Hope I go through the transplant soon?
Have a grate day,
Shannon

Hey Bruce - damn I am sorry to hear about that. It really does suck.

I know I'm gonna take a little heat for this but here comes the "tough love" portion... the REAL reason they will not consider you for transplant or treatment has a lot less to do with your substance abuse problems than it does with your mental health issues and in particular your multiple suicide attempts. Due to the ugly nature of the side effects of the current treatments (depression, anger, suicidal tendancies and so forth) putting you on the current treatments could very well send you over the edge and cause another suicide attempt. As for a transplant, well I can tell you from my experience working in the medical field that you aren't being denied due to your MJ use... it's all about the suicide attempts. I hate saying that but it is one of the factors that is used to determine who should be considered for transplant. The general thinking is (say in your case) - "Well... this guy has tried to kill himself 14 times... he doesn't even want to live so why give a healthy liver to him?" - well, you get the idea. The really fucked up thing about that is you obviously DON'T want to die or you wouldn't even care about treatment or a transplant but they don't take that into consideration. I love ya bro and I mean no harm or judgement here but those are the realities of the transplant game. I don't believe you are out of options though and I hope you keep pursuing your quest for proper treatment. You could definitely use a patient advocate and a case worker if you don't already have one - keep fighting my brother and do everything you can to keep (or bring) your spirits up - you are a good man - always remember that! NEVER FUCKING GIVE UP!!!

It's a beautiful world man... sometimes you just gotta scratch the surface of the dirt to see the beauty that lays just beneath. Or as they say in Shakedown Street... "you just gotta poke around..."

Can't even begin to send you all the love and good vibes I have for you (might overload the server you know) but just know it's there from us all for you.

Brian

Sorry to hear that Bruce.
I don't smoke MMJ myself, but apparently it helps you and you should do whatever it takes to make yourself feel better.
If they don't want to give you a transplant, at least you can keep yourself sane with your natural remedy.
Best of luck to you.

Sad to hear, Bruce. Keep on keepin' on, sweet man.

Brian, I remember reading over the last year or so about others being denied transplants because of marijuana use. The fellow in Washington, and others. It sucks and it's a shame.

This really sucks. It could be me as well. If I tested positive for marijuana I would be taken off the transplant list here in Pa.
AS it is I have to go to their psych. every 3months who treats me for depression. THe meds he prescribes work for me , thank God , so I am on the list.
Not everyone is the same but I am afraid Brian is on the right track. If you were seeing a psych. who could assure the transplant folks you were stable,I don't see how they could refuse you...
Keep fighting the good fight , keep coming back and don't loose hope my brother .....your in my prayers....peace, mack

good Luck bruce....it does suck. I'll probably die before I need a transplant, but I will stop MMJ if it comes down to that. And I don't plan on
playing to many games with them. I might even check out Thailand, if it gets to that point. It's only about a three month sail...... ;)

But hang in there Bruce. Weir on your side.

Hey Judit

You are absolutely correct about the Washington State incident(s) as well as the same thing in Oregon... from what I can tell it is common for these states (and a few others including Hawaii and Georgia) to use MMJ (or just plain recreational use of MJ) as a reason to deny transplants, but like so many things, nothing is quite as it appears nor are reasons for things always the real reason. What's really fucked up is this seems to be more common in states WITH legal MMJ than the ones without it (which I can't figure out for the life of me - talk about making absolutely no fucking sense!)

Here's a link to an article on the subject (the text is posted here as well in case you don't wanna jump to another page) that says a lot.
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/life/fiscal-fitness -go-on-a-cash-only-diet-567659/

Medical Marijuana Users Denied Organ Transplants.

In a handful of states, it’s legal for doctors to prescribe use of marijuana for medical purposes. But patients who partake may pay a big price: transplant denials.

The Los Angeles Times details such cases this morning, including that of Timothy Garon, a 56-year-old Seattle musician who was rejected for a liver transplant in part because he’d used medical marijuana to ease symptoms of hepatitis C. He subsequently died. (See this editorial supporting Garon in the Ventura County Star.)

Another patient, a 33-year-old diabetic whose kidneys and pancreas failed, told the Times he couldn’t get transplants at Virginia Mason Hospital in Seattle or University of Washington Medical Center because of medical marijuana.

Considering the detailed criteria for organ transplantation, and the long list of people waiting, the Health Blog can’t help but wonder what issues might be at play aside from the pot use. The University of Washington alluded to other factors in a statement to the Times: “Although medical marijuana may be an issue in rare cases, it is never the sole determinant in arriving at medical decisions about candidates for organ transplants.” Virginia Mason, meanwhile, said smoking of any kind could “lead to patient-safety and transplant-effectiveness issues” and was precluded, adding the transplant committee also would weigh use of medical marijuana in a pill form.

Standardized, written policies on the issue would help, some ethicists said. And a social worker at the liver transplant program at UCLA Medical Center said if medical marijuana means no transplant, that should be made clear to doctors. She told the Times that some transplant committee members see marijuana as an illegal substance and grounds for an automatic transplant denial.

~~It's all very convoluted and yes it is definitely a shame and it sucks BIG TIME! Do a search on the Internet using the terms Marijuana Transplant Denial and you'll be amazed at the contradicting opinions and information you will find. I think the real bottom line here is the serious lack of donors available and the bureaucracy involved with the so called criteria that is geared towards what some guy behind a desk decides who is worthy of the organ and who isn't. That is seriously screwed up. I swear, some of the things I have read on the subject of organ transplant criteria makes it sound like they do a complete personal background check on you from the day you were born and if you were ever bad in any way or (heaven forbid) broke a law (like say for instance you jaywalked once and got a ticket for it)... well you aren't deserving of a second chance apparently. The criteria seems to vary wildly from state to state and even from hospital to hospital and doctor to doctor as to what qualifies or disqualifies a person but the one thing that seems to be a real negative in almost every case to getting on the transplant list is suicide attempts and mental illness. Yes, there have been a plethera of stories in the news about people being denied due to MJ use (once again these denials seem to be most highly concentrated in states that have legal MMJ which really blows my mind) but if you dig deeper into the majority of the stories you will find other factors that the decision was made on (other health issues, age, how immediate the need is for one patient over another and a million other little thing) - rarely is one denied for transplants with the primary reason being MJ use. Note I said rarely, not always...

When I was working at my doc's office we had two patients who needed transplants (both liver) and both of whom used MJ like it was oxygen. They both got their transplants and are doing extremely well now - obviously the MJ usage didn't factor in at all.

Damn Bruce... if I had the money I'd send it to you so you could go to some country where they've got their shit together and you could get the transplant and treatment you need and obviously want. If I ever hit the lotto... we're goin liver huntin! In the meantime bud, keep your spirits up and keep trying to look on the bright side of things and never ever give up.

>>>>> If I ever hit the lotto... we're goin liver huntin!

It's a beautiful vision, Brian.

a beautiful vision indeed !

Mackman, you're another beautiful vision.

As are you Judit and all you wonderful Zoners!

BTW - the link I posted takes you somewhere far from the article I posted... I dunno how I managed to screw that up but hey at least the text of the article is here to read. Sorry bout that - seems I am turning into a technotard...

I'm sorry to make light of things considering the seriousness of this thread but I've always wondered about the phrase "substance abuse" and what exactly that means. I mean, to me it sounds like when someone beats their drugs and smacks them around or maybe leaves it at home alone without a babysitter or doesn't change it's diapers or feed it...

Seems to me what they really should call it is "self abuse via drug usage" or something like that. I'm just sayin...

I mean seriously - no self-self respecting drug user would EVER abuse their drugs.

Man the English language is weird sometimes!

Excellent linguistic points, Brian.

technotard.....lol,,,another grate new word for the 21st century..
Love you 2 judit!

Is there not a place to appeal this unfair policy. Any way hang in there, There must be someplace to question this travesty!!!!
Imagine Peace
RTD

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks Big Pharma has a hand in this matter. The policy seems designed to punish users of natural remedies by denying them medical treatment.

Thank you all very much for your support, I really
do appreciate for your understanding !!
It maybe wrong for the medical field to determine me
ineligible for treatment and future possibility of
a liver transplant,because of the use of Medical
Marijuana and my Mental Health issues!! But Brian
make some good points about the requirements for both treatment and Transplant!
Its time to not give up and just keep on Truckin' !!
Thank you all again !!

Bruce

If you have true faith in the healing power of the herb, Bruce, you won't need tx or a transplant.
Peace

And totally abstain from alcohol, most if not all presrirption drugs, especially all that end in "/APAP". Totally avoid otc meds as much as possible, too. And most important, and please don't take this the wrong way my brother, don't get addicted to the false love and attention of the mainstream medical community. It isn't real. You'd do better @ a whorehouse.

This bubble's for YOU!:

Sorry Saint but I must respectfully disagree with you.....
THe healing power of the herb didn't cure my Hep C or put my cancer in remission..
and I must admit I think Marty is right about big Phamacutals.
Recieving the care of good physicans , taking the meds as prescribed , a good dose of faith in a higher power and the healing vibes from my bros. and sisters here , yourself included are the reason I'm still here. You may disagree with me but that is my belief.
peace, mack

My hep c has all but disappeared so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I'm starting to ascribe to the theory that hepc is a response to drug & alcohol abuse in correlation w/ a bad diet and toxicity in the blood. After cleaning myself up, not just pretending, my hep c numbers fell off drastically, inconjunction w/ my herbal therapies. May hurt your feelings but I'll close w/ this: you guys praise your corporate/laboratory medicines but I'm not the one constantly thanking g-d that my cancer has gone away. I'm healthier right now, mentally & physically, than i have been in 15 years! Documented.
Peace

Ftr, as of today, i have been truly, 100% clean & sober, except for my mmj, for 270 days. @ weeks ago, my primary care physician who monitors my bloodwork, etc; after reviewing my most recent results, wrote me 12 months worth of hbp meds, the only Rxs I use anymore, and told me to come back in a year........COME BACK IN A YEAR??????HELLO???!!! ME???!! A YEAR???? I was and still am overwhelmed w/ joy @ the prospect of not seeing a Dr for a whole fucking year!!!
Talk is cheap; action get things done. For me, my soul-searching led me to a natural path of overall health tx and, I'll let the results speak for themselves. I'll get my exact #s on alt/ast/viral load on Monday but they were obviously impressive given the Doctor's orders ;-D. I repeat my advice which is advice only, STAY OFF THE ALCOHOL 100% ABSTINENCE NO EXCEPTIONS, NO ACETAMINOPHEN!, NO HARDDRUGS NO EXCEPTIONS. FLUSH & DETOX REGULARLY. QUIT EATING MEAT. And of course....Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will.
Peace

I am in awe of the knowledge and life experiences of you all. Bruce and Mack, the word vibes in ((())) are very real.

You are a wise man Brian.

Sending my collective thoughts and prayers to you both.

Brian,
good words of wisdom, as usual. you are right about the suicide issue. that word freezes everyone in their tracks. it's a sticking point, and 14 attempts is that much more so.
Bruce,
i'll bet if you find a shrink and listen to her, win him over and co operate, in 1 year you will get on that list. i've found that if you really co operate with Dr.s they will fight for you. good luck. keep us posted.

Bruce:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ixRqOauq4

Russ Bellville article/video on mmj patients and transplant denial. read/watch.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/russ-belville/the-de nial-of-organ-trans_b_435348.html

Ram Dass : Attachment & desire create your universe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf4w87JS-HE

Thanx for the links saint , excellent teachings to be found there.....peace, mack

And Saint....I am sure everything positive you have done , all the hard choics you had to make all the spritual work and all the detachment are responsible for your improved health....I salute you....peace, mack

Weird. When I was on tx my doctor told me that some of his patients were smoking to counter the side effects of interferon. He didn't come right out and tell me to toke up but he didn't leave me with the impression that he disapproved. He was much more negative about milk thistle than marijuana.

My Hep c doc prescribed marinol....but the liver transplant team does'nt believe in it...
I'd do most anything for a liver ....so I try n keep my head on stright about the whole thing.

Bluetrain, at that time, did it seem unappropriate to you to come right out and ask your Doc. straight out about MMJ?

When I attempted tx that is the vibes I got from my Doc., , realizing the fact, while under tx the mind is in an altered state. You just ain't thinking right.


Right on Mack!

A liver for Mack, please.

Bruce that totally sucks and is grossly inhuman and infair. Quetion...Would you consider checking out the states where this doesn't matter...or if that would not be so considering it's a Veteran's Hospital? It would be rough, but with your disability benefits you could find something somewhere maybe if you HAD to just to get your new liver????????????? Sending you lots of sunshine and hugs!

Hang tough Bruce Luv ya...

Good to see you, BEW. You always come through and shine with warmth and good thoughts. How are you?

You're welcome, Mack. Love ya brother!
Peace
Stan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ1rGSZ07_s&feature =related

Bruce,

Sounds like a messed up situation all the way around.
First of all.....let me say that I love you as a friend and always will. Your personal choices and how you attemt to rid yourself of this disease is yours........., I just support you as a friend.

What has me a "little" concerned are the suicide attempts. The reason I say that is because not only do I have a brother that did it.......but I deal with, and have quite frequently throughout many parts of my life.
My brother that is the artist ( hopefully you've seen a little of his work...... brucehermanonline.com ), once helped me tremendously by sharing we me some thoughts...and one of them quite very simply was....." Hey Mart, don't feel bad or think your strange, or that something is wrong with you because you've thought about suicide or that our brother committed suicide".......because that's not all that abnormal.
In fact many, many people ( most in fact) conteplate it quite frequently), so actually you pretty much fall into the norm!
It's what you do with those thoughts Bruce? Do you sit and contemplate on them or try dealing with them is some way. That's where some counseling or something may come into play. I've been thinking of it myself.
Anyway.....the last thing is to feel guilty or bad about feeling that way!!
Be careful about maybe about who you talk to maybe, but I'll keep thinking of you and praying for you.
Be careful about about choosing an exestenstialist as a mentor however, ( If there is nothing beyond this life for instance, what's the sense in sticking around, eh?........ha-ha)

Bruce...... you've got a good heart, and your a good man! Please do us a favor and stick around for a while! Peace & Good Will to You !!!

Martino

Oooooopa..to get to see any of my brothers art work; go to;
bruceherman.com



Sometimes when you keep things really simple it's easy to find things!
Anyway......hang tough brother, and let us know how your doing on a reguylar basis......
Martino

Thank you all for your support !
I am doing pretty good lately; and really it doesn't
matter if I am not eligible for treatment or a future liver transplant !! The MMJ helps keep the
depression,etc from getting bad, and relief from the Hep-c; so this is all that matters !!
I refuse to give up and I plan to fight it all the
way now,with or without the treatment or a liver
transplant !!

I'm glad to hear you're doing pretty good lately, Bruce, and I hope that continues. Stayin' alive!